Episode 39 – Interview with Paul & Kathy Jenkins

In this episode, Rod talks to former message followers, Paul & Kathy Jenkins.  Paul’s father, Lonnie Jenkins, was a well known teacher in the message and Paul was also the worship leader for many years at Believers Christian Fellowship in Lima, Ohio.  Paul is the brother of Jeff Jenkins, who we have interviewed several times on Off The Shelf.

External Links:

Music – Freedom by Josh Garrels from The House of Worship Project (2012) – available from Bandcamp.

Episode 38 – Interview with John Collins (Part 4)

This is the conclusion of our interview with John Collins, author of the Seek The Truth website.

In this episode, John talks about, among other things:

  • William Branham and the Ku Klux Klan (the KKK)
  • William Branham and Roy Davis
  • William Branham and Jim Jones
  • The Latter Rain Movement
  • The Manifest Sons of God

External Links:

Music – Love Thy Neighbor As Thyself by The Louvin Brothers from Preach The Gospel (2015) – available from iTunes

Episode 36 – Interview with John Collins (Part 2)

This is part 2 of the interview with John Collins, author of the Seek The Truth website.

In this episode, John talks about, among other things:

  • Are people who leave the message bitter or angry towards people in the message?
  • What led him to start seekyethetruth.com in early 2012.  
  • The new direction in his blog

External Links:

Music – New Pharisees by Charlie Daniels from Steel Witness (1996) – available from iTunes

Episode 35 – Interview with John Collins, author of the Seek The Truth website

In this episode, Rod talks to John Collins, author of the Seek The Truth website and grandson of Willard Collins, the former pastor of Branham Tabernacle in Jeffersonville, Indiana.  John is also the author of two books, “Stone Mountain to Dallas: The Untold Story of Roy Elonza Davis” and “Jim Jones – The Malachi 4 Elijah Prophecy”.

In this episode, John talks about, among other things:

  • Growing up in the message (followers of William Branham refer to themselves as being “in the message”).
  • How is being born into the message different from those who came into the message later in life?
  • Is the message a cult?
  • His recent interview on CBC Radio regarding the message street preachers in London, Ontario;
  • Are people in the “Message” isolated? 
  • The sub-cults of the message.

External Links:

Music – Questions by Matt Redman from Glory Song (2017) – available from Amazon

Episode 34 – Abdu Murray (part 3) – A former Muslim discusses the doctrine of the Trinity

In this episode, Rod concludes his interview with Abdu Murray, North American Director of Ravi Zacharias International Ministries.

For most of his life, Abdu was a proud Muslim who studied the Qur’an and Islam. After a nine-year investigation into the historical, philosophical, and scientific underpinnings of the major world religions and views, Abdu discovered that the historic Christian faith can answer the questions of the mind and the longings of the heart.

In this episode, Rod and Abdu discuss the doctrine of the Trinity including:

  • whether analogies are useful in understanding the Trinity:
  • baptism in the name of Jesus Christ;
  • whether a person is required to believe the doctrine of the Trinity to be considered a Christian; and
  • what it means to be a true follower of Jesus Christ.

External Links:

Music – Praise the Father, Praise the Son by Chris Tomin (2008) – available from Amazon

Episode 33 – Abdu Murray (part 2) – A former Muslim discusses the doctrine of the Trinity

In this episode, Rod continues with part 2 of his interview with Abdu Murray, North American Director with Ravi Zacharias International Ministries.

For most of his life, Abdu was a proud Muslim who studied the Qur’an and Islam. After a nine-year investigation into the historical, philosophical, and scientific underpinnings of the major world religions and views, Abdu discovered that the historic Christian faith can answer the questions of the mind and the longings of the heart.

In this episode, Rod and Abdu discuss the doctrine of the Trinity, including:

  • the biblical basis for the doctrine of the Trinity;
  • the logical basis for the doctrine of the Trinity;
  • how the doctrine of the Trinity proves God to be the Greatest Possible Being over and above a Oneness or Islamic conception of God;
  • the concept of persons in the Trinity and perichoresis;
  • Specific issues raised by Oneness Pentecostals or modalists, including:
    • Isaiah 9:6
    • John 10:30
    • John 12:45
    • John 14:9; and
  • the charge made by modalists and Islam of tritheism.

External Links:

Music – I Believe by Charles Johnson and the Revivers from I Believe (1995) – available from Amazon

Episode 32 – Abdu Murray (part 1) – A former Muslim talks about the doctrine of the Trinity

In this episode of Off The Shelf, Rod talks to Abdu Murray, North American Director with Ravi Zacharias International Ministries and the author of two books, including his latest, Grand Central Question: Answering the Critical Concerns of the Major Worldviews.

For most of his life, Abdu was a proud Muslim who studied the Qur’an and Islam. After a nine-year investigation into the historical, philosophical, and scientific underpinnings of the major world religions and views, Abdu discovered that the historic Christian faith can answer the questions of the mind and the longings of the heart.

Abdu has spoken to diverse international audiences and has participated in debates and dialogues across the globe. He has appeared as a guest on numerous radio and television programs all over the world.

Abdu holds a BA in Psychology from the University of Michigan and earned his Juris Doctor from the University of Michigan Law School. As an attorney, Abdu was named several times in Best Lawyers in America and Michigan Super Lawyer. Abdu is the Scholar in Residence of Christian Thought and Apologetics at the Josh McDowell Institute of Oklahoma Wesleyan University.

In this episode, Rod and Abdu discuss:

  • Abdu’s journey from Islam to Christ;
  • The mission of Ravi Zacharias International Ministries; and
  • Is the doctrine of the Trinity inconsistent with the unity of God and the Shema of Deut 6:4 which states “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.”

External Links:

Music – Doxology by Kelly Joe Phelps from Roll Away the Stone (1997) – available from iTunes

Episode 31 – Sylvia Perkins (part 3) – Why I left the message

This is part 3 of our interview with Sylvia Perkins.  Sylvia attended Branham Tabernacle as a child.  She was in a myriad of William Branham’s services and even watched TV with Joseph Branham, the youngest of the Branham children.

She was at the funeral of William Branham and attended Lee Vayle’s church for 18 years following the William Branham’s death.  She was at the opening of the opening of the cornerstone of Branham Tabernacle after it was struck by a car and saw what it contained.  She even had an interview with William Branham and he told her she was a prophetess.

Join Bryan and Rod as they discuss the many astounding things that Sylvia had the opportunity of seeing and why Sylvia ultimately had to leave the message.  We know you will be as surprised as we were at the many revelations and insights into the life and ministry of William Branham.

External links:

Music – Stand up Stand up for Jesus – from Hymned Again by Bart Millard – Available from Google Play Music

Episode 30 – Sylvia Perkins (part 2) – My Years in the Message

This is part 2 of our interview with Sylvia Perkins.  Sylvia attended Branham Tabernacle as a child.  She was in a myriad of William Branham’s services and even watched TV with Joseph Branham, the youngest of the Branham children.

She was at the funeral of William Branham and attended Lee Vayle’s church for 18 years following the William Branham’s death.  She was at the opening of the opening of the cornerstone of Branham Tabernacle after it was struck by a car and saw what it contained.  She even had an interview with William Branham and he told her she was a prophetess.

Join Bryan and Rod as they discuss the many astounding things that Sylvia had the opportunity of seeing.  We know you will be as surprised as we were at the many revelations and insights into the life and ministry of William Branham.

External links:

Music – I Must Tell The Truth – from I Believe by Charles Johnson and the Revivers – Available from Amazon

How to Subscribe to Off The Shelf on your phone

The easiest way to subscribe to the Off The Shelf podcast is by clicking on one of the links below on your phone. You can then subscribe to the podcast and each new episode will automatically be loaded on your phone as it is published. You can also save your favourite episodes and listen to them again. This will also allow you to listen to the podcasts when you aren’t connected to the internet.

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Episode 29 – Sylvia Perkins (part 1) – Growing up in Branham Tabernacle

Sylvia Perkins attended Branham Tabernacle as a child.  She was in a myriad of William Branham’s services and even watched TV with Joseph Branham, the youngest of the Branham children.

She was at the funeral of William Branham and attended Lee Vayle’s church for 18 years following the William Branham’s death.  She was at the opening of the opening of the cornerstone of Branham Tabernacle after it was struck by a car and saw what it contained.  She even had an interview with William Branham and he told her she was a prophetess.

Join Bryan and Rod as they discuss the many astounding things that Sylvia had the opportunity of seeing.  We know you will be as surprised as we were at the many revelations and insights into the life and ministry of William Branham.

External links:

Music – Amazing Grace (My Chains Are Gone) – from How Great Is Our God: The Essential Collection by Chris Tomlin – Available on iTunes

Episode 28 – Were some Christians required to believe Satanic doctrine to be saved?

Did you you know that William Branham taught that some Christians were required to believe Satanic doctrine in order to be saved?   This podcast outlines William Branham’s teaching on the subject with direct quotes from his sermons.

This number 10 (and the last) in our summer series of podcasts that we have entitled “Summer Shorts”.   They are only 5-10 minutes long… just enough to get you thinking about something that you might not have thought about.

Relevant links to this podcast

Music – A Mighty Fortress Is Our God  by Chris Rice (written by Martin Luther)   – from Peace Like A River: The Hymns Project – available from Amazon

Episode 27 – William Branham’s visit to the graves of Buddha, Confucius and Muhhamad

William Branham stated on several occasions that he had visited the graves of Muhammad, Buddha and Confucius.  But did he?  We looked at the issue to determine whether William Branham actually visited these famous graves.

I think you will be surprised at what we found… well, maybe not if you’ve been listening to our podcasts.

This podcast is number 9 in our summer series of podcasts that we are calling “Summer Shorts”.   They are only 5-10 minutes long… just enough to get you thinking about something that you might not have thought about.

Relevant links to this podcast

Music – Truth  by Jamestown Revival  – from Utah – available from iTunes

Episode 26 – Did William Branham travel around the world seven times?

William Branham stated on numerous occasions that he had traveled around the world seven times.  We had a question from a listener asking if we had ever checked whether this was the case.  So we did some research to determine whether William Branham actually went around the world seven times.

I think you will be surprised at what we found… well, maybe not if you’ve been listening to our podcasts.

This podcast is number 8 in our summer series of podcasts that we are calling “Summer Shorts”.   They are only 5-10 minutes long… just enough to get you thinking about something that you might not have thought about.

Relevant links to this podcast

Music – I’ve been everywhere  by Hank Snow  – from The Essential Hank Snow – available from iTunes

Episode 25 – The prophet and the eagle

William Branham stated many times that the Bible compared God’s prophets to eagles. However, he never provided one scriptural example of where this was the case.  So we thought we would check out whether what he said was actually based in the Bible.

I think you will be surprised at what we found… well, maybe not if you’ve been listening to our podcasts.

This podcast is part 7 in our summer series of short podcasts that we are calling “Summer Shorts”.   They will only be 5-10 minutes… just enough to get you thinking about something that you might not have thought about.   Some may be the two of them, while others may just be solo.

Relevant links to this podcast

Music – If I had the wings of an eagle  by Ziggy Marley (feat. Elizabeth Mitchell) – from Family Time  – available from iTunes

Episode 24 – The significance of a seven-lettered name

William Branham stated that there was significance in names name ending in H-A-M.  It was also significant that Billy Graham’s name was six letters, the number of a man, but Branham was 7 letters, which was perfection.   Really?  

William Branham also stated that his ministry and Billy Graham’s were the only worldwide ministries of anyone with a name ending in H-A-M.  But he obviously did not know about Frank Boreham.

This podcast is part 6 in our summer series of short podcasts that we are calling “Summer Shorts”.   They will only be 5-10 minutes… just enough to get you thinking about something that you might not have thought about.   Some may be the two of them, while others may just be solo.

Relevant links to this podcast

Music – I Was Wrong (Acoustic)  by Arizona  – available from iTunes

Episode 23 – To Message Followers: God commands you to answer the questions of skeptics!

In this podcast, Bryan & Rod provide scriptures which specifically require message believers to provide answers to the questions that researchers into the message have been publicly asking for the past 5 years.

This podcast is part 5 in our summer series of short podcasts that we are calling “Summer Shorts”.   They will only be 5-10 minutes… just enough to get you thinking about something that you might not have thought about.   Some may be the two of them, while others may just be solo.

Relevant links to this podcast

Music – Questions  by Gentleman & Ky-Mani Marley, from the album – Conversations  – available from iTunes

Episode 22 – Did William Branham have any real prophecies??

We have been unable to find a single occurrence where we have a clear prophecy recorded on tape that was later clearly fulfilled.

This is a test for anyone that is a follower of the message of William Branham. Did William Branham make any REAL “before the fact” prophecies in any of his tapes?

THIS IS THE CRITICAL QUESTIONCan you provide us with an unambiguous prophecy made by William Branham that was recorded publicly before the fact (i.e. we can verify on a tape) and that was later fulfilled in a clear manner?  Surely, somewhere between 1946 and 1965, there is at least one clear prophecy that was made and fulfilled.

We will publish any such prophecy and its fulfillment on our website. Surely somewhere on a tape between 1947 and 1965, there is a prophecy that he recorded before the event that was later clearly fulfilled. However, to date, no one has brought us such a prophecy and we have been unable to find a single one.

This podcast is part 4 in our summer series of short podcasts that we are calling “Summer Shorts”.   They will only be 4-5 minutes… just enough to get you thinking about something that you might not have thought about.   Some may be the two of them, while others may just be solo.

Relevant links to this podcast

Music – I’ve Searched for Gold  by Delirious?, from the album – The Cutting Edge Years – 20th Anniversary Edition  – available from iTunes

Episode 21 – Jesus + Branham = ?

What do you get when you add William Branham to Jesus?  Is it the Gospel that Paul preached?  Or is it something different?

William Branham stated that “the Word in the days of the apostles does not work in this day.”  Is that what Paul preached?

This podcast is part 3 in our summer series of short podcasts that we are calling “Summer Shorts”.   They will only be 4-5 minutes… just enough to get you thinking about something that you might not have thought about.   Some may be the two of them, while others may just be solo.

Relevant Links to this podcast

Music – Nobody Else Like You  by Andrae Crouch, from the album – Mercy  – available from iTunes

Episode 20 – Two Ding Dongs and a Microphone (Summer Shorts)

 

One of our listeners informed us of a recent comment made by the pastor of a message church in Beaufort, South Carolina.  This pastor labeled those who dared challenge William Branham as “ding dongs”.

But was it the case that no one dared challenge William Braham when he was alive?  Find out what actually happened to those who challenged William Branham.

We also include a sneak preview of an upcoming interview with Sylvia Perkins in September.

This podcast is part of our summer series  of short podcasts that we are calling “Summer Shorts”.   They will only be 4-5 minutes… just enough to get you thinking about something that you might not have thought about.   Some may be the two of them, while others may just be solo.

Relevant Links to this podcast

Music – Ding Dong  by The Ding Dongs, from the album – Johnny Otis Presents Eldo Records Vol. 2 Featuring Sugarcane Harris & Little Julian Herrera – available from iTunes

Episode 19 – William Branham in Summer Shorts

For July and August, Bryan and Rod are doing a series of short podcasts that they are calling “Summer Shorts”.   They will only be 4-5 minutes… just enough to get you thinking about something that you might not have thought about before.   Some may be the two of them, while others may just be solo.

William Branham wearing “women’s underneath clothes” in South Africa

William Branham stated that when a man wore shorts, he was wearing a  “woman’s underneath clothes”, but don’t men were shorts for underwear as well?  Could it be that William Branham didn’t wear any underwear?

In this podcast, we look at William Branham’s condemnation of men wearing shorts and his apparent hypocrisy in wearing shorts himself.

Relevant Links to this podcast

Music – Summertime, Summertime  by The Jamies, from the album – Radio Hits of the ’50s – available from iTunes

Episode 18 – Meet Emily Arndt, missionary to Uganda (Part 3)

Emily Arndt  grew up in the message in Wisconsin but never heard the good news of Jesus Christ until she was 21 years of age.  Emily became a veterinary technician and is currently living and serving with the Christian Veterinary Mission in Kampala, Uganda, East Africa. She is Assistant Clinician Facilitator in the surgical department of Uganda’s only veterinary college.

She works under a missionary veterinarian from the UK and also assists the Africa Center for Apologetics Research, who work to train believers for the defense of the faith, and mobilize Christians for the neglected but essential task of cult evangelism.

Relevant Links to this podcast

Music – Under African Skies  by Paul Simon, from the album – Graceland (25th Anniversary Deluxe Edition) – available from iTunes

Episode 17 – Meet Emily Arndt, missionary to Uganda (Part 2)

Emily Arndt  grew up in the message in Wisconsin but never heard the good news of Jesus Christ until she was 21 years of age.  Emily became a veterinary technician and is currently living and serving with the Christian Veterinary Mission in Kampala, Uganda, East Africa. She is Assistant Clinician Facilitator in the surgical department of Uganda’s only veterinary college.

She works under a missionary veterinarian from the UK and also assists the Africa Center for Apologetics Research, who work to train believers for the defense of the faith, and mobilize Christians for the neglected but essential task of cult evangelism.

Links to topics discussed with Emily

Music – Africa  by Johnny Clegg & Juluka & Soweto African Choir, from the album – The Best of Johnny Clegg – Juluka & Savuka  – available from iTunes

Episode 16 – Meet Emily Arndt, missionary to Uganda (Part 1)

Emily Arndt  grew up in the message in Wisconsin but never heard the good news of Jesus Christ until she was 21 years of age.  Emily became a veterinary technician and is currently living and serving with the Christian Veterinary Mission in Kampala, Uganda, East Africa. She is Assistant Clinician Facilitator in the surgical department of Uganda’s only veterinary college.

She works under a missionary veterinarian from the UK and also assists the Africa Center for Apologetics Research, who work to train believers for the defense of the faith, and mobilize Christians for the neglected but essential task of cult evangelism.

Relevant Links

Music – Leaning on the Everlasting Arms  by Ladysmith Black Mambazo, from the album – Two Worlds One Heart  – available from Amazon

Episode 15 – The 1963 Arizona Cloud with Pastor Jeff Jenkins (Part 3)

Jeff Jenkins, pastor of Believers Christian Fellowship (BCF) in Lima, Ohio for almost 35 years, discusses the 1963 Arizona Cloud with host, Rod Bergen in part 3 of  their interview.

Some of the questions they discuss include:

  • Have those the criticize our cloud research actually looked at it?
  • What does numerology have to do the cloud?  Is numerology rooted in paganism?
  • Did the cloud move towards Sunset Mountain?
  • Were some of William Branham’s visions fabricated?
  • What is Jesus Christ doing in the world today?
  • The Parable of the Prodigal Son – Are message believers akin to the elder brother?
  • “It’s not the power of your faith but the object of your faith that saves you.”
  • What is biblical modesty?
  • Was William Branham under a Nazarite vow?
  • Was William Branham’s teaching on alcohol biblical?

Articles referred to on the podcast (click on the links):

Music – Uncloudy Day  by The Staple Singers, from the album – Top 50 Classics – The Very Best of the Staple Singers Early Years  – available on iTunes

Episode 14 – The 1963 Arizona Cloud with Pastor Jeff Jenkins (Part 2)

Jeff Jenkins, pastor of Believers Christian Fellowship (BCF) in Lima, Ohio for almost 35 years, discusses the 1963 Arizona Cloud with host, Rod Bergen.

Some of the questions which they discuss include:

  • The Cause of the Cloud – Was it the aftermath of a constellation of angels visiting the earth or was there a natural explanation?
  • What are noctilucent clouds? – Why did no one see the cloud until sunset?
  • Only believe? – Does Bible tell us to simply have blind faith?

Articles referred to on the podcast (click on the links):

Music – The Unclouded Day  by Randy Travis, from the album – Worship & Faith  – available on iTunes

Join our Facebook discussion!!

If you would like to engage with ex-message followers as well as people who still follow William Branham, please come to our discussion page on Facebook (click here).

We have a new post every day which contains questions, comments, and issues relating to the message of William Branham.

Episode 13 – The 1963 Arizona Cloud with Pastor Jeff Jenkins (Part 1)

Jeff Jenkins, pastor of Believers Christian Fellowship (BCF) in Lima, Ohio for almost 35 years, discusses the 1963 Arizona Cloud with host, Rod Bergen.

Some of the questions which they discuss include:

  • The Prophecy of the Cloud – Did William Branham prophesy the cloud in advance of it appearing?
  • The Timing of the Cloud Why did the cloud appear 8 days before William Branham went hunting?
  • The Location of the Cloud – Why did the cloud show up 200 miles away from where William Branham was hunting?
  • Gene Norman’s testimony of the cloud – What did William Branham;s friend, Gene Norman, hear and see?
  • Chad Lamb’s sermon on the cloud – Does the cloud have anything to do with Exodus 19:16?
  • The Cause of the Cloud – Was it the aftermath of a constellation of angels visiting the earth or was there a natural explanation?

Articles referred to on the podcast (click on the links):

Music – I Can See Clearly Now  by Johnny Nash, from the album – The Best of Johnny Nash  – available on iTunes

Episode 12 – An interview with Careyann (Muller) Zivich (part 2)

In this episode, Careyann continues to discuss some of the strange things she experienced in the Returned Ministry sub-cult within the message, along with the following:

  • The strange circumstances that began her journey out of the message;
  • Her experience with finding searchingforvindication.com’s timeline;
  • The implications of Deut 18:20-22
  • Her research into whether the message was true;
  • The reaction of her husband;
  • Whether she really did believe the message while she was in it;
  • The location of William Branham’s picture with the pillar of fire;
  • Why do people stay in the message; and
  • What it means to be a true follower of Jesus.

Careyann’s website – Message Mysteries Unraveled

Song – Choose Life from Big Tent Revival – Greatest Hits by Big Tent Revival (1995) – see album

Episode 11 – An interview with Careyann (Muller) Zivich

Careyann (Muller) Zivich was raised in the message and has seen more than her share of the bizarre things that the message has to offer.  In this episode, Careyann discusses her time in the message and some of the strange things she experienced.  To be fair, not all people in the message experience the things that Careyann did but the strange sub-cults are definitely there to be found.

Some of the issues she discusses include:

  • The failure of message ministers to stand against abortion;
  • Growing up as a girl in the message;
  • The treatment of women in the message;
  • Examples of William Branham’s hypocrisy;
  • Steven Shelley and Ezekiel’s Wheel;
  • Donald Parnell and the Third Testament Millennium sub-cult;
  • The Returned Ministry sub-cult.

Careyann’s website – Message Mysteries Unraveled

Song – Confused by Dean Martin, from The Capital Recordings, Vol 5 (1954) – see album