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Jeff Jenkins, pastor of Believers Christian Fellowship (BCF) in Lima, Ohio for almost 35 years, discusses the 1963 Arizona Cloud with host, Rod Bergen in part 3 of their interview.
Some of the questions they discuss include:
- Have those the criticize our cloud research actually looked at it?
- What does numerology have to do the cloud? Is numerology rooted in paganism?
- Did the cloud move towards Sunset Mountain?
- Were some of William Branham’s visions fabricated?
- What is Jesus Christ doing in the world today?
- The Parable of the Prodigal Son – Are message believers akin to the elder brother?
- “It’s not the power of your faith but the object of your faith that saves you.”
- What is biblical modesty?
- Was William Branham under a Nazarite vow?
- Was William Branham’s teaching on alcohol biblical?
Articles referred to on the podcast (click on the links):
- Video – What caused the Cloud?
- The Cause of the Cloud
- The Timing of Cloud Events
- “The Road to Sunset” by Rebekah Branham Smith (Only Believe Magazine)
- Why was the cloud not seen before sunset?
- Wikipedia article on noctilucent clouds
- Google search – Rainbows caused by moonlight
Music – Uncloudy Day by The Staple Singers, from the album – Top 50 Classics – The Very Best of the Staple Singers Early Years – available on iTunes
I love these podcasts but I have a little critique on something Rod mentioned on this one. He criticized William Branham for claiming that Jesus magnified the law. Rod denied that that was the case. But actually Isaiah prophesied that Jesus would do just that.
Isaiah 42:21 (KJV)
21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness’ sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Starting from vs. 1 the chapter is referring to the coming Messiah.
On the sermon of the mount Jesus pointed out that the law was to be acted out from the heart not just externally. Example, lust= adultery. Shows us we as fallen man cannot keep his law thus need Grace. I actually think that is even what WMB taught. Not defending WMB just the Truth.
We were aware of this passage but do not believe it has anything to do with Messiah based on our research in a number of commentaries. You can read the details of this discussion here.
I really feel sorry for those who continue to follow William Branham. Keep on exposing this false prophet. You will save many souls. Your work is not in vain.
Fine, so lets go and research the bible. Who can proof it? Maybe the pope? I know you will have an answer for that But all what you have is some research. The whole world is build on science and research and is falling apart. The bible is teaching us the opposite. So one thing i know for sure one day we will see if Bro. Branham was wrong or right. I want to be rather on the side of the message than your side. Then we will see who is called a liar ;).
David, I assume you have not listened to the first 2 episodes of this podcast which you will find here. I looked at the Bible through the eyes of a skeptic and found it to be trustworthy. My research took about 9 months to complete. I listened to a series of lectures by Bart Ehrman and read several of his books. I listened to other non-Christian scholars as well before I read what the Christian scholars had to say. My conclusion was the Bible was trustworthy.
Then I started in on the message with the objective of proving whether it was true or not. It did not hold up as well as the Bible. Not even close. Here are the major problems that honestly shocked me when I started digging:
1. There are a number of visions that failed. How do you get past Deut 18:20-22 if you say you believe the Bible?
2. William Branham lied… a lot. I really had a hard time coming to grips with this but in the end, the evidence is overwhelming.
3. Some of his doctrines can be easily proved to be wrong from the Bible.
If you disagree with us, please prove us wrong. All of the information is spelled out clearly here. I want to be right as well, and if we are wrong, it should be pretty easy to disprove our research. We would be happy to publish any materials that would prove we are wrong.
The Bible is absolutly trustworthy. It is the word of God. No doubt on it. But you should ask yourself if you really know what you read. You know i don’t care about your research. Because you are not saved through research. And you don’t receive the Holy Spirit through research. It’s all about faith. So if you say, we can’t believe the message. There is no problem with that. It is your life. And i also don’t believe that you are going to hell because of that. But even for people in the world it looks like you are really hurt. Because you do everything to proof the message wrong. So i don’t want to hurt your feelings. But i think you are doing a big mistake. From my point i don’t want to proof you wrong because i know what i believe. So like i said before we will see what is right one day. And your research won’t count then but your faith. The real faith.
I take great exception to a couple of comments you made:
1. You don’t want to prove me wrong? That is either because you can’t or you don’t care. If you don’t care, then I don’t see how you can say you believe the Bible. We are to leave the 99 and go after the one sheep that is lost.
2. I was trying to prove the message to be true. It proved itself to be wrong. I have an obligation and responsibility to tell people what I found.
3. You have faith? In what? Do you believe everything that people tell you about WMB? Why? You sound exactly like a JW or Mormon. Luke commended the Bereans because they looked for proof. You don’t care about proof so your faith is in a figment of someone’s imagination. We have proved beyond doubt that William Branham failed the test of Deut 18:20-22 and if you don’t care, it simply means that you don’t believe the Bible. You, in fact, exalt WMB above scripture. And that is one of the indications of a cult.
Sure. You believe you take the bible. I feel sorry for you and all the people following you.
If you won’t look at the facts, then you are willingly ignorant. Sad but true…
Sad is that you take “facts” before the word of God. So who is then ignorant? I tell you one thing. The problem you have is that you know deep inside the message is the truth, but you can’t live it. So you try to find as hard as you can an excuse. Sorry to say that but you have nothing. None can stop the message.
By the word of God, do you mean the word of Branham? Why would God allow the facts and the evidence to point to WMB lying? When John the Baptists doubted, Jesus pointed to the evidence. Luke pointed to the evidence. Paul pointed to the evidence. But you want us to ignore the evidence?
The message is dying a slow but inevitable death.