Jeff Jenkins, pastor of Believers Christian Fellowship (BCF) in Lima, Ohio for almost 35 years, discusses the 1963 Arizona Cloud with host, Rod Bergen.
Some of the questions which they discuss include:
- The Prophecy of the Cloud – Did William Branham prophesy the cloud in advance of it appearing?
- The Timing of the Cloud – Why did the cloud appear 8 days before William Branham went hunting?
- The Location of the Cloud – Why did the cloud show up 200 miles away from where William Branham was hunting?
- Gene Norman’s testimony of the cloud – What did William Branham;s friend, Gene Norman, hear and see?
- Chad Lamb’s sermon on the cloud – Does the cloud have anything to do with Exodus 19:16?
- The Cause of the Cloud – Was it the aftermath of a constellation of angels visiting the earth or was there a natural explanation?
Articles referred to on the podcast (click on the links):
- Video – The Prophecy of the Cloud
- Video – What caused the Cloud?
- The Prophecy of the Cloud article
- The Cloud’s Location
- The Cause of the Cloud
- The Timing of Cloud Events
- “The Road to Sunset” by Rebekah Branham Smith (Only Believe Magazine)
Music – I Can See Clearly Now by Johnny Nash, from the album – The Best of Johnny Nash – available on iTunes
26 Replies to “Episode 13 – The 1963 Arizona Cloud with Pastor Jeff Jenkins (Part 1)”
Thanks you so much for the priceless information…
I hope one day u bring in a current message believer to make a case against this.
God Bless you
This was just part 1 and we will be addressing the defense of the cloud by message minister Chad Lamb in an upcoming episode. Stay tuned!
God forgive if it is possible. Cause William Branham is the ‘He the Holy Spirit that if spoke anything against it it will never be forgiven of you’
Go read the sermon ‘The Sign of The End time’ Brother Branham stated it.
I thank you for your priceless debate and if branham wasn’t true why are you discussing about him? He’s out played your doctrines.
Enoch Mayanda. Zambia
“God forgive if it is possible”??? We were in the message for almost 4 decades. The reason we discuss Branham is that we are moved with compassion for those who are still trapped in the deception that is the message. Please go to our website, pick one of our issues and prove us wrong! If you are honest and truly love us, you will try. If you are deceived and one who holds the message of William Branham above the Bible, you will write us off as not worth forgiveness.
When the God who created the heavens and earth, in sundry time promised our father in faith Abraham that his seed will be in bondage for 400 years and He will deliver them by that mighty hand, the might hand was came into manifestation as a man, Moses. The voice crying in the desert, it was John the baptist, but now Malachi 4, Elijah is Branham. Now brethrens I love you cause I strongly believe the Bible is becoming complete with the message by William Branham. If you won’t believe the message to be true, when the deciples asked Jesus what will be the signs of the end time according to Matthews 24, what’s the last sign? Why is Branham so strong than others? Cause He who will believe, will do greater works than Jesus? Casue my brother if you believe in Jesus what miracle have you done? If Branham’s prophecy about cloud was wrong why was it captured, and appearing according to the Holy Scriptures of the bible?
God bless you.
“You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.” (Mt 22:29)
Did you actually listen to what we had to say? Branham did not prophecy the cloud. William Branham lied, he had visions that failed, his prophecies changed readically over time, and his teachings were not in accordance with the Bible.
Please examine closely Matt 24:34 which states “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” This generation was the people living at that time and everything prior to that passage was fulfilled by 70 A.D. at the destruction of the temple. That is what Jesus clearly means.
My brother, give one prophecy by William Branham that failed. I gave you reference from the bible. You’ve mentioned William Branham’s prophecies changed radically, now it was written in the Bible a virgin shall conceive. Now watch how the virgin conceived, in an usual way that the people didn’t expect. So why do even want to believe in Jesus Christ who had a criticised perculiar birth? Tell me my brother it was a prophecy yet complicated. Its very interesting brother.
God bless you.
Enoch, I think you are asking the wrong question. The answer to this question came as a real shock to me – Can you provide us with an unambiguous prophecy made by William Branham that was recorded publicly before the fact (that we can verify on a tape) and that was later fulfilled in a clear manner? Surely, somewhere between 1946 and 1965 there is at least one clear prophecy that was made and fulfilled?
In 1 Samuel 3:19-20, the Bible says this of the prophet Samuel:
As Samuel grew up, the Lord was with him, and everything Samuel said proved to be reliable. And all Israel, from Dan in the north to Beersheba in the south, knew that Samuel was confirmed as a prophet of the Lord.
In the Old Testament, prophets prophesied within three time frames: their own time, for the 1st coming and the 2nd coming. The test of a prophet was his near prophecies which would be fulfilled in his own lifetime. Obviously, if it was beyond his lifetime, he wouldn’t be around to have to answer for it.
What we find hard to believe is that message followers are unfailing in their belief that William Branham was a prophet, yet we have been unable to find a single prophecy that he made on tape that was later clearly fulfilled.
We will publish any such prophecy and its fulfillment on our website. However, to date, no one has brought us such a prophecy and we have been unable to find a single one.
All of the prophecies that we have had pointed out to us are either after the fact (i.e. William Branham only mentions them on tape after they have been fulfilled) or are ambiguous prophecies (i.e. if they were not fulfilled, no one would have been able to point to the prophecy and say that it was clearly wrong).
God forgive you
God made us alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross.
I have listened to bro branhams very many messages and i love him so much a true genuine prophet of God and all you do is find fault with him. I have heard Branham talk about the doves and the bigger doves then a blast which vision he didnt understand so he thought that maybe he was going to killed in a blast, and so he went to Tucan Arizona. Just stop lying about branham and get Branham’s own accounts of what really happened. Here is the full account from branham himself
It was about nine o’clock, and in the vision, he found himself standing in the West, seemingly around Tucson, Arizona, and he was picking a cocklebur off his jeans. With him in the vision was his young son, Joseph, and they were talking when he saw before him a big bush. In the bush was a cluster of tiny birds. There were two or three birds on the top limb, six or eight on the next limb, and fifteen to twenty on the bottom limb, forming the shape of a pyramid. It seemed that the birds. looking tired and battle-scarred, were trying to say something, but suddenly, they few off towards the East.
Immediately a flock of slightly larger birds, resembling doves, flew past him, going from the West to the East. They were travelling much swifter than the smaller birds, and when they had passed, he turned and looked again to the West.
At once, he heard a loud blast that sounded like a plane breaking the sound barrier, or even a great clap of thunder. It shook the earth, and coming from afar off, out of eternity, he saw a constellation of Angels. They travelled faster than sound, their wings arched and their faces in profile. He didn’t have time to count, but there appeared to be no less than five, and no more than seven. They too were in the form of a pyramid. In the twinkling of an eye they were with him., and (in the vision) he felt the power of God lift him up to meet them.
Still in the realm of the vision, he reasoned that this must mean his death was imminent, perhaps in an explosion. But he could still hear the voice of his son, and he realized that if, indeed, it had been an explosion, it would have killed the boy also. Then he knew it was the Angels of the Lord coming to give him his New Commission. He raised his hands and cried out, “Lord Jesus, what will you have me to do?” And the Vision left.
Coming out of the Vision, Brother Branham was left feeling numb and breathless. More than an hour later, he still felt as though he were detached from his body. Still troubled as to the exact meaning of the vision he said, “Lord Jesus, if this means that I’m going to be killed, and you are finished with me on earth, let me know and send your power back on me again.” He waited but nothing happened. Then he said, “Lord Jesus, if it means that you have something for me to do and it is to be revealed to me later, then send your Power Again.” The Anointing and Power of God came down and almost took him from the room.
When he finally emerged from the bedroom it was nearly noon. He told his family only that he needed to spend the remainder of the day in study, since he was scheduled to preach at the Tabernacle the following day.
Now – The Vision Fulfilled
In the above vision Brother Branham was standing somewhere in the West. To coordinate the fulfillment of the vision, the Lord had already, in 1958, given His Prophet another vision, showing that when a certain thing happened concerning his property in Jeffersonville, it would be a ‘sign’ for him to move Westward. This vision of 1958 was followed by ‘six dreams’ given to other Believers – ALL dreams spoke of the prophet going West.
In December 1962 Brother Branham’s 1958 vision concerning his property was fulfilled. It was his ‘sign’ to turn westward. On December 30, one week after receiving the Vision of the Seven Angels, he informed his congregation of his decision to move to Tucson. He told them of the Dreams and the Visions and said, “And I am going, I don’t know where, I don’t know why. I can’t tell you why. But there is only one thing I know: just follow what he says do. I don’t know which way to turn.”
By the first week of January 1963, Brother Branham and his family were in Tucson. Within the space of two months things began to fall into place for the fulfillment of the vision…..
On this particular day Brother Branham, Brother Fred Sothmann and Brother Gene Norman were preparing for to leave on a hunting trip. It was already mid-day when they left for Sunset Mountain in Brother Sothmann’s white pick-up truck. They had only three days left in the Javelina hunting season.
Less than two hours after leaving Tucson, they turned off the paved road at Wilcox and unto the dirt road that led to Bonita and into the canyons scattered along the rimrock of Rattlesnake Mesa. One hour later, each of the brothers had shouldered their rifles and gone their separate ways.
The first day of the hunt didn’t prove very successful – neither of the brothers had bagged any game. But the next day Brother Branham was successful in finding a good sized Javelina. The other two hunters were not so fortunate, but since he now knew the general vicinity of where the herd was located, Brother Branham promised to point them in the right direction the next morning. The three brothers headed back to their campsite for the evening.
Camp was a simple affair – a fire, three folding chairs, and a small table – where they could sit, eat and talk – or listen, which was the case on their second night in camp. As Brother Branham was to relate later, the Presence of the Holy Spirit was tremendous in the camp that night, and HE began to reveal (by visions) things that were taking place in the lives of the brothers and their family members. To break-away from the Visions which could easily exhaust him, Brother Branham finally got up and walked a distance away from the camp.
By mid-morning of the third day, the brothers were once again hunting the elusive Javelina. The sun filtering through the scantily clad branches of mesquite brush provided a perfect shade camouflage for the stiff grey and brown bristles of the small herd of Javelina. A gust of wind danced its way through the prickly pear and barrel cactus, picking up desert dross and leaving a smudge of dust in its wake. The largest of the feeding Javelina cautiously stepped out of the shade and moved towards a tempting patch of tender, green, ground-cover nearby. He sensed nothing amiss, and, responding to his leadership, the remainder of the her soon followed him into the bright sunlight.
Across the gully, the hunter wearing the black hat, was nearing the top of the ridge and he paused in his climb to look around. Jagged rocks littered the vicinity. Just ahead he could see a faint deer trail winding down from the high mesa that swept Eastward. The sky was clear and the morning was cool, but an aggressive sun would soon press the temperature into the high seventies.
Finding a clear spot, the man sat down and began to remove the cockleburs that had fastened themselves to the legs of his denim jeans. Gingerly, he tugged one of the spiny seeds loose, but then hesitated before tossing it aside. A feeling of familiarity swept over him. “That’s strange,” he mused, looking at the bean-size pod he held between his fingers. “I recall something about picking a cocklebur off my trouser leg.”
Most likely, it was hunter’s instinct that caused him to look up at that moment, and what he saw triggered an immediate response. The herd of twenty or so Javelinas that he had been looking for since dawn had just wandered into view and were feeding a little more than 500 yards away. Focused on his immediate objective, which was to alert his two fellow-hunter to the location of the game, he threw the now forgotten bur to the ground. Quickly and quietly he rose to his feet, and started up across the ridge.
Once out of sight of the animals, he stopped long enough to fasten a small piece of Kleenex to a bush as a marker, and then he quickened his pace to a dog-trot as he moved forward to locate the other two Brothers. He had only gone a little distance, then IT HAPPENED…..
The sound was like nothing he’d ever heard.
As the roar of the blast reverberated around him, for one frightening moment he felt as though his body had been catapulted into the air. “I’ve been shot,” he thought, assuming that another hunter had seen his black hat as he was running and had mistaken him for one of the dark-colored Javelina. All around him, gravel and fair-sized rocks that had been dislodged by the blast, bounced noisily down the slope.
He than realized that his feet were still firmly on the ground, but he knew that the dimension surrounding him had changed, for standing before him was a pyramid of Seven Mighty Angels.
Isaac junior, I don’t think you understood what we said. Please watch this video and pay attention to 3 things:
1. How many angels did WMB describe were there the FIRST time?
2. Why did he change the number of angels in the vision?
3. Did WMB mention any clouds in this vision?
Youtube video on the prophecy of the Cloud – click here
Unfortunately a lot of my fellow African brothers follow blindly to what they know not. They have been robbed the basic biblical principles by following a man. William Branham was a cunning, he said contradicting things some of which are correct. The same well cannot bring forth bitter and sweet water so i don’t care if there are some truths he then told. Most of his Fundamental Doctrinal issues are not biblical. When you put a few messages together you will see how he conned you. Unfortunately here in Africa the Pastors are telling people to stay away from sites that examine the message (yet they are always on the same sites… how cunning… sly foxes like their prophet). Fortunately for me I refused to be coned by the Pastors and read for myself… still in the recovery process for the wasted years.
Back to the post WMB simply lied through his teeth about the whole cloud story.
That many African message followers are simply blindly running after WMB is clear from our interaction with them on our Facebook page. We are trusting that the Holy Spirit will use these podcasts and our website to reach those people that are really searching for God and not something that makes them feel important. Please continue to pray for us.
These people do not deserve attention. Did somebody ask for proof that one of William Branham’s prophecies did not come to pass? Gosh, I hope that’s not what I read. I would pretend they did not comment at all, as they will never change. Please, do not waste time and energy on them. Use that time preparing other podcasts.
Thanks for your comment, Ed. You really have to understand cognitive dissonance to see where they are coming from. We wrote an article on it here and it is necessary to understand why people in cults often can understand rudimentary logic.
Rod Bergen you and your fellow men that are trying to deceive the people REPENT OR FACE GOD’S JUDGEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT REPENT YOU WILL SURELY PERISH!
Hi Rod i am looking around to see which good church to go to after leving the message. Will i be using message glasses when i look at the church where women do not wear trousers?
You have to be very careful that you are not hanging on to message dogma when you walk into a non-message church. You can find a discussion on this topic here.
We also have written an article on what you should look for when deciding on a non-message church to attend.
God Bless you brother Bergen, I was a message believer for around 14 years and pastored a local assemble of 50 members. A few years ago i started noticing the same discrepancies that you have been pointing out and was very disturbed by them. However I was not satisfied with the approach of putting these discrepancies on the shelf as the truth meant a lot to me. So i started searching for the truth. It was around the same time you published the article ‘humble pie’. I was so blessed. I eventually saw all the falsities and deception in the message and decided to leave the message as it was a big lie. I was concerned about our church. So i decided to tell them the truth. I did and by the wonderful grace of God, everyone saw it plainly and we are freed from this web. Today we are an independent bible believing church in India.
Thank you for all you work and efforts in making the truth know.
God bless you
Thank you, brother! It is messages like yours that keep us going. We just want the glory to go to Christ and we want everyone to truly follow him rather than a man. God bless you and the work you do!
The same question remains: If I were to leave my Message church where would I go to? As Peter asked ‘Where can we go to yet you have the Words of Eternal Life?’ Can I start wearing make up, cut my hair, wear trousers? Will I become a woman preacher? Those of you that were brought up in Message churches have no idea what a treasure the Message of our beloved prophet WMB is. For some of us we have been through them all: Catholic for over 11 years, then Pentecostal etc.
I wish you the best as you search and welcome you back when you discover how wrong you are!!! Who on earth has ever taught us the true Baptism? I would like to go to such a church! My brethren, let us cast out reasonings and believe the True Message.
Don’t you know that God deliberately says some hard things in order to shake off the non-believers?! They accused Jesus of inviting cannibalism and they could have quoted Leviticus on foods!! Let us trust in God’s revelation because without Faith (revelation) we cannot please God. The five-fold ministry will guide us in this.
There is still room for forgiveness so long as there is blood on the throne. No one could ever point us to the fundamentals of the Bible like the beloved prophet WMB ! In fact, that is why we are called Bible Believers!!
Forgive them father.
With Christian love
If you were to leave my Message church where would I go to? We answer this question here
Peter asked the question of Jesus. We point people to Jesus not WMB.
WMB pointed to himself.
You stated: “Don’t you know that God deliberately says some hard things in order to shake off the non-believers?!” Your statement is decidely unscriptural. James said, “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.” (Acts 15:19–20). Not complicated… no 10 commandments… no tithing… not hard. Why do you want to ignore the clear instructions from the apostles?
You can call yourself a “Bible Believer” but your comments clearly show that you hold the words of William Branham above the Bible. That is a clear sign of people who are members of a cult.
Interesting! I am surprised that I wrote this last year! I had forgotten about it. But I still stand by every word I wrote. Jesus said hard things and most left Him as they took offence-but not the chosen. I believed the Message after seeing the TRUE Word of God on Baptism, Ever since, I am all sold out. I thank God for my prophet, my apostle, Bro Joseph Coleman and the five fold Ministry which is perfecting the saints, according to Ephesians 4:11-13. Believe you me I am a true Bile believer. Anything you bring to me must be Biblical. But as a professor I also do my research and don’t just follow blindly. Prayer changes things. Please pray for me if you believe I am wrong and I will pray for you so long as there is breath in us. God is full of mercy and love and there is no other true Message that has the Bile as the foundation.
I was in the message for a few years. I left God in 2010 and came back in 2020.
I have been struggling if I should go back to a message church for the last few months. I had an abusive husband and was condemned by message believers for leaving him and divorcing him. I believe God answered my prayers and allowed me to leave this man who abused me. So returning to a message church was something I was struggling with. I was having a hard time with how pastors in the message always quoted Branham instead of Jesus. I found your website and listened to Jeff Jenkins story. I knew then that was God’s way of showing me the truth! Jesus is the ONLY way! Not Branham’s message! Keep up the pod carts! I pray one day my mom and my best friend sees the light! Both of them are message believers and both of them are married to abusive men! Neither one of them believe they can leave their husbands! Jesus said to Love one another, not beat and berate one another. I believe Branham set the stage for message men to look down on their women and rule over them….again not Jesus’s teachings of love!
A woman has every right to leave a husband who is abusive. There is nothing in scripture that would require the woman to stay with an abusive man. Message ministers are in error about this (and more than a few other things).